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Strategies for Effective Customer Engagement and Retention

Stefani Thrasyvoulou, VP of Marketing, TalentDesk.io

For this episode of Wytpod, Harshit Gupta, Director of Business Alliances at Wytlabs, interviewed Stefani Thrasyvoulou, VP of Marketing at Talentdesk.io. Join Stefani as she shares her expert insights on revolutionizing freelancer management. Discover the platform’s innovative approach, from automated payments to streamlined workflows, and learn the winning strategies behind their SEO success. She discusses their strategic use of SemRush for SEO insights and the crucial role of marketing in driving customer success stories. She emphasizes the shift towards value-driven outbound efforts and the challenges of mass email marketing in an increasingly competitive landscape. Stefani also highlights the company’s focus on customer retention through human-centric support and their innovative approach to partnership marketing for future growth.

TalentDesk.io is a SaaS platform enabling businesses to organize, pay, and scale their freelance teams, all from one place.

Stefani Thrasyvoulou
VP of Marketing, TalentDesk.io

Hello, everyone, and Welcome to another episode of Wytpod. My name is Harshit, and I’m the Director of Business Alliances at Wytlabs. We are a Digital Agency specializing in SaaS and E-commerce SEO. I’ve got Stefani with me today. She’s the VP of Marketing at Talent Desk. It’s a SaaS platform enabling businesses to organize, pay, and scale their freelance teams, and all from one place. So a big welcome to you, Stefani. I’m so happy to have you with me today.

Thank you. Thanks for inviting me.

Great. Now, can you please let our viewers know a little bit about your background and your professional journey so far?

Sure. My background has always been in marketing, from media companies to then the startup world. In the last four years, I’ve been part of the Talent Desk team, and the last two years I’ve been running marketing for Talent Desk. Primarily running things around inbound marketing, but most recently getting more involved in outbound marketing as well as sales. I can talk a little bit about that. I think some of your questions might touch on that as well.

Okay. Now, let’s talk Talent Desk. Can you provide an overview of the platform? Is it a freelancer management system? Also, let’s talk about the US piece of the platform as well. What sets it apart from the competition out there in the market?

Sure. I thought with the latter what set us apart? Because I think it’s relevant to our brand or founding story. The founding team of Talentdesk is the same as people prouder. Com, which is a freelancer marketplace that’s based in the UK, but they’re very big across Europe. So effectively, the founding team has been in the freelancer space for the last almost, I would say, 18 years now. I think that’s what sets Talent Desk apart as well because it was very much started with the freelancer space in mind. We see a lot of solutions in the space that are doing everything, so their employee payroll, that they’re also freelancer-focused, whereas our platform was built for businesses that rely heavily on freelancers. I think that’s what the differentiating factor is.

While you’re answering this question, I would love to understand in-depth your target high CP space.

Sure. So exactly I think based on what I just said, our target audience is businesses that fundamentally function because of their external workforce, because of their freelancers or contractors. Typically, it’s businesses like eLearning companies. Again, by the nature of what they do, most of the tutors, educators, content creators, or whatever you want to call them, are freelancers. They’re independent contractors, they work independently, and they’re typically paid by the hour, the by the day. That is one core vertical for us. Another one is media companies and agencies. Again, by nature, what they do, they employ a lot of content writers, video editors, content creators, and marketers. I do have to say with COVID and remote work becoming the norm, there are more and more businesses that have sprung up that are using contractors on a more ad hoc or more flexible basis because everyone is now based remotely. Companies have realized that they can hire remotely. I think our ICP is expanding, but we do still see fundamentally these businesses that have freelancers at their core having the biggest pain points. For that reason, they make up our target ICP. Consulting businesses as well, tech companies as well.

 

But I would say the two verticals are eLearning and media companies. The key decision makers that come looking for a talent desk or that we try to approach are people in operations, so people ops, talent acquisition people, HR, of course, so people dealing with the onboarding and compliance side of things, but also financial controllers and accountants directors, because again, payment is another thing that we solve for.

What size of business do you mainly market to or your content is articulated in a way to gets into that audience?

We target it to all sizes. We’ve got companies that will classify startups into enterprise clients. What I will say is that the bigger the business, the bigger the problem, and the faster it grows, the bigger the problem. We do tend to see high-growth startups, if you like, or tech companies, and the more enterprise side of businesses being our target audience and having the most admin around freelancer management.

Interesting. You mentioned a very good point. A lot of, in fact, brands that I’ve seen, specifically catering to global audiences, now have started hiring local talent across the event. All possible because of this remote work culture and those things happening. I’m sure they hire on a contract basis. A good friend for you. Okay, now let’s talk about SEO being up and you’re primarily involved in your SEO operations, I would love to know what strategies have been really helpful in scaling your organic visibility via SEO. If you can share some of the winning strategies, please go ahead.

Sure. I think for me, the biggest winning strategy of SEO is just writing content that you’ve got expertise in. So that’s always been our strategy. We do, of course, competitor landscape and high volume search terms. We’ve got an agency that we work with, and of course, we do that a flight of things. But I will have to say, I think there’s no better way of creating content for SEO than just thinking about what your clients would want to learn more about. What are they struggling with? Prospective clients, of course, as well. To give you an example, we know that, like I mentioned before, we work with a lot of eLearning companies. We know that there are certain that are particular to that industry, or there are certain trends that are particular to that industry. As long as we’re in a position to write good content around those, that is something that we always aim for. Of course, creating guides and downloadable materials, things that can add value to our existing clients, but also our prospective customers is the best strategy for SEO, in my opinion.

That makes sense. In fact, after Google’s update, the EAT update, they made it more evident. Although people in the industry knew this, if you’re building an authority within a specific niche, it helps you scale and look better. I think HubSpot talked long back before this update, when it came out, having the pin-up page clusters around it, all of that stuff. Yeah, it amounts. I would love to understand your approach to generating new content as well. How do you proceed? How does the ideation happen? If you’re using or leveraging any tools for the purpose, please share those details.

Sure. I can’t speak just for the tools because we do have an agency that has the tools that they bring on board when we do think about what to write about. It’s a process, though, of looking at the competitor landscape, looking at what content is doing well for us, and thinking about what related content we can expand on. It’s about looking at trends and things Let’s say a particular legislation for freelancers. Has this come into effect? We always try and keep on top of these things so that we write relevant content, things that are informative to people who might not be aware of something that’s changed, but also building on our existing pillars, if you like, and just adding things that contribute to content gaps around those main topics.

That’s amazing. Are you doing anything around your off-site strategies, any activities, or any campaign to gain quality links back to your domain and stuff like that?

Yeah, it’s a very relevant question because it’s something that we are doing more of at the moment. It wasn’t part of our core content strategy, but as you’ve mentioned, with Google’s latest updates, domain authority, and backlinks are becoming increasingly important. Again, we don’t want to be one of those websites where we just try and buy a ton of backlinks or just say yes to anyone offering them to us. We don’t buy backlinks. It’s not in our strategy.

Even Google hates it. Google doesn’t buy paid backlinks or anything that carries tags that indicate that this has been purchased

Exactly. You can’t get away with it anyway, but it’s not something that’s in our ethos as well. We’ve always tried to get organic backlinks. For example, leveraging our network, our partners, our clients, offering case studies, and things like that. Things where we can get links back from relevant sources of companies that we do work with. But of course, we’re also on the lookout for any content that we think might be relevant to linking back to the Talent desk, and we do reach out. But I would say the number one backlink strategy is our network at the moment.

Okay, that makes sense. Let’s get back to the platform. I would love to understand how the platform streamlines the freelancer’s workflow from onboarding to payments. Could you share some specific examples? Because I see very good numbers on your website. 70% less admin, 99% fee for payments, and all those things. It’s a very promising matrix. Could you please explain that process?

Yes, absolutely. I’ll start with the payments. It’s usually the most simple to explain. We offer automation around global payments. That effectively means that companies get the best rates because we do volume payments. We’ve got a lot of different payment partners like Wides Payneer PayPal and Bevelut. We’re able to offer very competitive rates on global payments through that. Companies save a lot of money from that primarily. But the biggest benefit of payments is that it’s all automated. We’ve got the tools in place through our platform for automated time tracking. Depending on the hourly rate or the daily rate, whatever it is, contractors can track their time. That time gets converted into invoices, and you can set different levels of approval. That’s a different story. But the gist of it is that this automation around time tracking converts work into payments at a click. Then we offer consolidated invoicing. For businesses that work with, let’s say, 100 contractors that invoice once a week because a lot of businesses want to pay their contractors regularly, that’s 400 invoices alone just for those 100 contractors. Now, we work with businesses that have a thousand contractors on upwards.

 

You can imagine the level of admin that comes with dealing with all those invoices, from inputting payment details to tracking the payments and making sure they reach them on time. It’s very admin-heavy. What we do is we automate all of that. We collect the contractor’s payment details, and we’ve got our AML checks and everything in place so that it’s a very hassle-free and compliant process. Then the end client receives one consolidated invoice with, of course, all the granularity that they want. They’ve got all the information that they can also input into their accounting software. That’s all there. But ultimately, it’s one invoice and it’s one amount to pay to us. Then we automate and manually as well check all of the individual payments that need to be done to their contractors. That explains, I hope, the 99% fewer payments. Let’s say you have 100 invoices a month. Actually, with Talent Desk, you’ll have only one to pay. That’s a huge time-saving. Then the admin stats, of course, are very relevant to payments, again, because they relieve businesses of a lot of the admin around payments and particularly finance themes. But it also relieves a lot of other stakeholders in that you don’t have to do the manual back and forth.

 

What is this cost about? What is this invoice about? It’s all saved on the platform. You can download CSVs with your particular project codes and you can import them into your accounting software or your systems. It accounts for the visibility across teams that can be easily shared and different people can also be added to, obviously, the projects on the platform and track everything on dashboards. It streamlines all of that. But that’s not the only admin that we take away from the equation because onboarding contractors, especially for businesses that have a significant number of them, is very admin-heavy in a lot of ways from onboarding. Collecting all the right tax forms, all the right information, running compliance and verification tests, and creating a database that’s searchable of your talent so that you can easily find the right people for work. Allocating that work, collaborating and sharing deliverables and tracking milestones, all of that, basically from the onboarding stage to the work management side, all through to time tracking and payments and reporting It’s all streamlined on one platform. It does save a lot of admin, it saves a lot of time, but it also saves businesses having different tools, which we all know they’re quite costly.

 

It saves businesses from having a ton of different tools to do what one platform can effectively do. Like I said before, it’s been built specifically for businesses with a large number of freelancers. It’s been years in the making, and we’ve got a product now that, honestly, customers swear by, and they’re the ones that are telling us that they’re saving upwards of 70% on freelancer-related admin and a lot of money as well at the same time.

That’s brilliant. That’s a very good strategy as well, product-wise. Offering, worrying solutions, one-to-one platforms. With the fact that nowadays, even as I see tons of SaaS just to manage a company’s hundreds of solutions to buy different tools out of that. That’s a good USP that you have. Amazing. Okay, let’s talk about the other channels apart from SEO that you leverage for your traffic generation, for your brand visibility, for your lead generation, all of those things. Could you please expand on that?

Sure, definitely. Google AdWords. We run keyword campaigns as I think any business does. We’ve been doing that for a few years now, and it is a constant stream of leads. But we’re now focusing our efforts more on very industry-specific marketing.

Are you using AdWords for both Lead Generation and Remarketing?

We’re doing both. We’re doing Google Display Network, awareness, and remarketing, and we’re doing Google search as well. And then we’re doing a lot of, like I said, brand awareness campaigns, some vertical focus approaches as well. So we’re targeting the particular ICP that I mentioned earlier on this call with information organizational content, so things like brochures or generally informative content that we know are relevant to that industry. We’re doing lead generation campaigns on that side of things, but we’re also doing email outreach to our relevant target audience.

Nice. What are the main KPIs that you keep track of to measure the success of your marketing campaigns and even ensure that they align well with your marketing goals and your business on your desk?

Sure. We track traffic, of course, and things like engagement and average time on site. Ultimately, if you don’t get the conversions, I think those are a little bit irrelevant. I would say the number one KPI from the marketing side is lead generation. That includes relevant people downloading your content that you can then nurture and reach out to. But of course, people fill in forms on our website, so direct calls to action like book a demo, book a call. We’re constantly monitoring and optimizing our campaign score conversions. But we’re also looking at things like, are we reaching the relevant audience with these campaigns? If we’re targeting media companies, are we getting traffic from media companies? A lot is going on in terms of tracking our KPIs.

Okay. What analytics do you primarily use for this tracking?

Sure. We use, of course, our website. It’s on HubSpot, so we do use HubSpot for a lot of our tracking. We’ve got GA4 as well, of course, set up. We do have intent tools, so we use a tool called Snitcher. It’s a little bit like the clear bits of the world that show you what types of companies or what specific companies come to your platform. You don’t get personal data or anything like that, but you can track the companies visiting your website back to their campaigns. So I think, yeah, off the top of my head, those are the three or four. And of course, Google Search Console for the organic side. Those are the main ones, I’d say.

Okay. Anything that you’re doing for a specific SEO, for your Rank Tracking, stuff like that, is it something that you take care of, or the agency that you hired manages for you?

Yes, I think our agency is using SemRush, specifically, to get insights on SEO.

Can you share a customer success story? Where do the platform and your marketing effort play a crucial role in addressing clients’ needs? And how exactly does your marketing game leverage a positive client experience for your brand promotions?

Sure. I’d say Obviously, marketing is the first step in getting a prospect. The sales team and the customer success team take over from that point onwards. But then ultimately, a lot of the relationship comes back to marketing. If you do look at our customers’ page, you’ll see that we’ve got clients that we’ve had for four or five years, and they give us repeat testimonials every time it changes. An example of that is one of our Consulting. Consulting clients are based in Germany called A train. They’ve been with Talent Desk for a while, and every time we update our customer testimonial with them, they’ve got something new to share about how Talent Desk is making their life easier as they grow. That’s always great to hear. Another one is your Monitor International, it’s a big market research company. Then we’ve got eLearning companies like Memrise and MindValue who’ve also been with us for a while. We’ve been very kind to give us consistent testimonials, again, about how we’re reducing admin and freeing up their time. One particular example, I think may to your point about the fewer payments, a good example of the way that we solve that is through this language app called Memrise, which is a global company, we spoke to them and it was interesting to hear that their financial controller, it’s a very senior person, was manually sorting out invoices for contractors or freelancers every end of the month.

 

That’s an expensive time right there. I think he mentioned a staff 20 hours of his month would go on to manually approving payments and inputting payment details. The point is, that’s a big cost to the company, and it could have been time that is spent on more important things. Not that payments aren’t important, but when you’ve got a tool to automate that and make sure that people are getting paid on time in a much more efficient way, then that is important time freed up. We’re constantly speaking to our customers. I think it’s twofold. We want to speak to our customers to get material, so case studies that we can promote and videos that we promote on LinkedIn and in all our acquisition efforts. But I also think it’s very important to speak to our customers from a marketing standpoint, because if you don’t understand what the benefit is for your customers, then you can’t sell to new customers. So we need to have that relationship.

You mentioned that you’re actively looking into the outbound efforts as well that your team is meeting. I would love to understand what channels are you leveraging for those outbound efforts and what’s working in your favor.

Sure. I think every company out there is doing mass volume. The problem is that with AI as well. Everybody’s doing more and more of it. It’s hard. We’ve been doing it for years. We’ve tried many different things, and it’s important to keep testing. I think, again, for me, the biggest thing that we’ve seen work is giving value to people rather than going in straight for a sale. It’s very hard to just say, Look, this is what we do. Are you interested? Sometimes that works, of course, when you hit the nail on the head, but it takes a bit of trial and error, and it’s probably not going to happen very often that you hit the nail on the head with that message. It’s a genuine effort to build relationships with our target audience, offering them something, content or guidance and so information, and from there on, trying to build a relationship. Hopefully, that converts into them wanting to use our software. But I think it’s less about, let’s try and book meetings this way, and more about, let’s generate value, let’s make people aware of who we are and what we do, and let’s hope that in time, they’ll convert.

Are you doing cold emails, or calling as well? What’s the starting use?

It’s mostly email.

Email. It’s getting tough, especially bulk emails when these new updates come out, Gmail launched it, starting them, and Yahoo and Bing both. Are there any specific challenges that you as a company are also facing? It’s so How did you work on those? Bad open rates, a lot of messages landing on- HubSpot. Of course.

I think every company is. It’s familiar with the pain of mass volume. We’ve used a ton of different tools in the past.

I’m sure you’re not leveraging HubSpot

We did use HubSpot at some point when we were doing everything in-house and internally before we automated everything. I don’t remember the names of the tools that we used afterward, but we used a couple of different sales tools and companies, domain warmups, and all of that stuff. I’ll say that the things that we maybe saw success with two, or three years ago are not necessarily the things that I think you’d see success in today. Again, it’s because things have changed. Before, you used to be able to send huge emails. The more informative, the better because people were not getting that many emails, so they probably could digest it more. Now, I don’t know, I’m speaking about myself as well, but I’ve got a very limited attention span. If you don’t tell me what your point is within the first two lines of an email, I’m just going to delete it. I think that’s what iteration comes down to just constantly becoming more succinct, more to the point with what you’re trying to say in the email, whether it’s you’re trying to sell them something or whether you’re trying to offer them something. I think it’s the same strategy.

 

With open rates, yes, again, it’s a trial and error. We see different things work at different times. Sometimes we see huge subject lines work and deliver high open rates. Sometimes we see two-word subject lines being more effective. It depends on your audience. There’s nothing that I can say, and I don’t want to give the wrong advice because I think it’s very specific to your audience. You’ve just got to test it. You’ve just got to test it for your ICP and A/B test and test different messages to different

Since you are leveraging both paid as well as organic channels, we would love to understand, how do you balance organic and paid strategies in your marketing budget. How exactly does that happen, please?

I’d say organic is mostly in-house at the moment. We do have an agency. We do get a lot of different experts. But ultimately, again, I think we are the ones who know what content will resonate with our customers and with our prospective customers. So most of the content ideas and the briefs and all of that come from ourselves. That’s ongoing. It’s not that we have a fixed number that we need to do every month. It’s more, This is relevant, this is relevant. Let’s get this out as soon as possible. There are some slower months and faster months. That’s how it is with content, and we’re very sensible with our budgets. Like I said, we try and do as much in-house as possible, and then we just have an agency for the more technical expertise that’s needed. Then for paid marketing, it’s the same. We can see that the market is, and I’m sure, again, all software companies are experiencing the same thing. It’s getting more and more competitive. Some companies can afford to pump out a huge ton of cash into marketing. But for us, we are just trying to get the customers that are close to what we do.

 

Like I said before, eLearning companies, media companies, agencies, I think we’re consulting firms. We solve the problem well for those types of clients. We’re trying to focus our marketing dollars on those industries in particular.

Any specific challenge that you would like to highlight that you might have overcome in the past? It could be around SEO, or it could be around your strategies. If you surpass those challenges, overcome those challenges with flying curves, please.

There are always challenges. We’ve got challenges now, we had challenges last year. There are always challenges. I think that’s what’s nice about marketing, that’s personally what I love about marketing. It’s an always changing environment and you always have to keep on top of it and find new ways of surpassing those challenges. Specific challenge? I think we see different challenges in every step of the journey. Sometimes when you’re just starting, you don’t have that brand awareness. It’s very difficult to get that first set of customers. Then the more you grow, the more credibility you have. We’ve now got very big logos on our website and big logos in each vertical that we’re targeting. That’s a great source of credibility. But at the same time, a challenge is that businesses are inundated with software. It’s been a very difficult economic year, at least in 2023, where the pain points were still there, but just getting approval over the finish line for most businesses was a tougher challenge. I think for us, the challenge was just basically identifying more and more of these key customers and hoping that things will move faster in 2024 because I don’t think they moved very fast for anybody in 2023, at least in our specific space or our side, I should say, rather than our space.

 

We’re constantly innovating. We’re constantly trying to find new ways of reaching our target audience, of using our customers and these big logos and our testimonials in showing prospects how we would solve that problem for them. Ultimately, We are a cost-saving and efficient tool, but it’s not always easy to get businesses to see that because there is a subscription, and there is a fee. When budgets are very tight, a lot of companies, even the very big companies, find it very difficult to justify spending on new software, especially because they have a ton of software. I think our biggest challenge is to try and show that actually, the return on investment on our system or our software is very high. You do spend money, but you save an incredible amount of money and time at the same time.

That’s an interesting point. I would love to understand a little bit more on the customer retention side. What programs do you have to facilitate the retention factor, have a decent churn rate, all of those things happening, and better customer lifetime value.

We’ve got a great customer retention metric. I think it’s the nature of the product. To get it straight, we do have a fantastic customer success team. One of the things our clients always mention, and we’ve had plans switching over from competition to us as well because of this very thing, they all value how customer-centric we are. We go out of our way for our customers. It’s humans being there. There are always problems, humans being there solving the problem, understanding what more they would want from our software, and we’re constantly developing it based on our customers’ needs. I’d say that’s the number one reason why we’ve seen incredible loyalty from our customers. The other side is that it’s the nature of the product. Once you’ve got your team onboarded and everything is in place, you’re no longer collecting things on spreadsheets for onboarding and tax forms and payment details and worrying about compliance and verifications. Once everything’s in a system, especially if you’re constantly growing, that need for the system just becomes bigger and bigger. You can’t imagine your life once you’ve got it there. I think those two things have been one of the reasons why customer retention and net dollar retention have been great for Talent Desk.

Stefani, what’s the plan for 2024? What new marketing initials or trends you’re excited about and trying to incorporate?

Sure. Like I said, we’re constantly testing new things. We’re constantly exploring things. I will say something relatively new for a tell us, and I’m excited about it, is the partnerships route. It’s not something that we’ve focused on before, but I do think, especially because of all the challenges that I mentioned before that are not specific to talent as well, are specific to everybody, that costs are rising, marketing budgets have remained relatively, for most people, stagnant, but the cost of acquisition is increasing as competition is increasing. All of these challenges, I think, have made businesses on the plus side a little bit, try and find alternative routes to reach their customers. I think a great way is a partnership because you’re not competing against all the software out there. There’s a great opportunity for synergy, for cross-promotion, for businesses putting each other in front of their existing customer base. I think that’s probably the best way to, firstly, reach your audience, reach a new audience, if that’s what you want to do, but also get your brand out there to relevant decision-makers through a trusted source. Let’s say, the system that they already use and is already providing value is then suggesting a Talent Desk as well, for example, as an addition to that.

 

It’s very new for us. We recently reached a partnership with a couple of different platforms, and I think we’ll be spending more time in 2024 exploring this avenue.

Okay, that’s brilliant. Are you trying to reach out to these marketplaces? For example, HubSpot has its marketplace. You can integrate multiple tools out there available. So stuff like that or looking into still some SaaS tools out there that complement your business. I am still on a moderate level concerning the business and revenue that they’re generating, what’s the focus area?

Yeah, exactly. It’s less integration focus, although that is also something that we were exploring, it’s more about the second option that you mentioned, basically finding tools that are solving a different problem, but for a similar decision maker. In that case, we’re not competing, but we could be complementary. Their software could be very useful to our customers and vice versa. I think it benefits both companies. If you’re not competing against each other and if you’re both complementary, you might want to offer a discount to each other’s customer base. I think that’s a great way of offering, cross-promoting each other, and getting in front of people through a trusted source, like I said.

Makes sense. All right, so we’re coming to an end and I would love to have a quick lap at fire with you. Are you ready for that?

Sure.

Okay. If given a super power what would you choose? Would you rather be able to speak every language in the world or be able to talk to animals?

Oh, that’s a difficult one. Animals, I think. Okay. Do I need to explain my answers?

Yeah, please go ahead.

Okay. I just love animals, particularly dogs. It would be probably a much better business skill to speak every language. I’m sure that would open a lot more tours. I think it would be quite life-changing if you could communicate with animals and if you could see how they think, and what they feel. I think that would be a very eye-opening experience.

Do you have any dogs or pets at home?

Not myself, unfortunately, no.

Okay. If you could travel back in time, what period would you go to?

What period? Yeah. I had to experience the ’60s or the late ’60s, early ’70s, not far at all. I just think it was an exciting time with a lot of change, particularly for women. That was the first couple of decades where women started exploring going to work and having equal rights, the right to vote and all of those things. I would have liked to be part of that movement in that transition. Also, I think musically, they were fantastic decades with a lot going on and a lot of music legends that I would have loved to see live in concert. I think that’s why.

Amazing. How many hours of sleep do you need?

I’d say I’m good with 6-7 hours. If they’re good hours of sleep.

If you could eat something for a week straight, what would that be?

Chocolate. All right.

Coming to our very last question? What’s your last Google search?

My last Google search. I probably Google something to do with freelancer management because I’m constantly checking to make sure our rankings are as they should be or if there’s something new. Sorry, that’s boring, but that’s probably the truth given that it’s the work day. It’s the end of my work day.

All right. Thank you so much, Stefani, for sharing all your brilliant experiences about the company, and all the good initiatives that you’ve taken worked really well for you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time here with me. Thank you.

Thanks for having me.

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