From Ad Tech to Manufacturing: Spencer Traver’s Marketing Journey

Thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity to be here with you today.

Yeah, I appreciate you asking that. So as you mentioned, I previously worked in ad tech for a firm for seven years and enjoyed my time there. When this opportunity got presented to me to jump from ad tech, which is very forward-thinking in terms of technology, and then go into a SaaS universe in the manufacturing sector, it couldn’t be more different. You’re going from something that is incredibly forward-thinking We’re looking at things like cookie deprecation, data privacy, identity, all of those types of things to try to figure out how do you put software in the hands of blue-collar workers who help our nation’s economy go around. Manufacturing represents 10% of the nation’s GDP. For me, what attracted me was a couple of things. One is the challenge to take a big jump from something where we’re delivering technology solutions to people in ad tech to people in this manufacturing sector. That’s a huge, huge challenge. The second is that Sustainment is an Austin-based startup. It’s a Series A venture-back startup out of Austin with a remote workforce. And so understanding that I had previously the firm that I was with. We had grown whenever I joined.

We were still a venture-back company, took on two private equity partners over seven years, and grew from anywhere from 150 to almost 700 employees with more than a billion-dollar valuation. Becoming that tech unicorn status of a company was a big deal. You’re going to change things operationally and operate more as an enterprise-type company. To make that jump from almost 700 employees down to 20 to 25 employees is a massive jump as well. The challenge of both the industry and then going from something big to getting on the ground floor of a company that has a mission that I believe in was great. Then really, I would say most importantly the people of the company as I went through the interview process, getting to know just the different leaders in the company, especially our CEO, Brett Boyd. I report directly to him, and he’s a fantastic guy, and he’s got a great vision for this company. Just getting to know them, there was a comfortability there that made it easy and attractive to join.

Sure. It’s a really interesting space, manufacturing software. There’s a lot of different components to it. What Sustainment is doing is very, I don’t want to call it niche. We were just talking about this a second ago. I don’t want to call this niche, but it’s new. It’s a different way of doing things. Traditionally, within a software universe, you have a couple of main components. Sales have a CRM tool, and finance and admin typically rely on an ERP with maybe an SAP integration. Then your procurement and sourcing teams within manufacturing are left to email and spreadsheets. What Sustainment is doing is we have what’s called an SRM or a Supplier Relationship Management platform. We’re essentially putting software in the hands of procurement and sourcing teams that allows them to go and do their work better. It’s interesting because SRM is a verified category within the industry. There is absolute ownership of this category as well. But the way that it’s being owned and the way that it’s being talked about is not the way that it should be. That’s what sustainment is doing that’s different we’re focusing on how these procurement sourcing teams don’t have a specific software solution built for them in their function.

We’re putting software in the hands of these procurement and sourcing teams that allows them to manage their vendor relationships better, allows them to do things like cut our queue times down, allows them to speed up their POs, ad ha, hatter management of it. They’re able to measure supplier performance better, and then it also makes their quality audits a lot easier as well. Those are some of the different ways that when you build software specifically for those teams, it tends to work a lot better. Then the other thing is that the TAM, the addressable market on this, is actually, it’s really interesting. 300,000 manufacturers in the US are classified as small to mid-size. It represents almost 99% of manufacturing in the US, of the companies in the US. We’re working with a large industry of a lot of companies who need tools like this to be able to succeed.

Yeah, great question. Whenever I came in this statement, previously, we had taken a very PLG Motion forward. We’ve been working on finding that, striking the balance of that hybrid. I think a lot of SaaS companies across software right now are seeing a lot of that. I think that’s an emerging trend where you’re seeing some great product-led motions. Companies like MailChimp, for example, do a great job of being able to go and sign up and start your account right there. But you’re seeing a lot of companies that have this hybrid approach, especially within tech software across many sectors, where you have a way that you can get introduced into the product It’s right there with a click of a button because today’s culture is that we want to have things instantaneously. But you’re having a lot of sales-led motion because a lot of software that’s being built requires some explaining for it to be extremely valuable. Not that it’s not intuitive, but that people need to understand and we’re being inundated with so many different software solutions. That’s what Sustainment is doing we make it available, and it’s a free resource actually, for suppliers to join the network and be able to communicate with manufacturers that they work with and also bid on new opportunities.

But really, the value comes in for those who have more complex outsourced manufacturing operations, and they’re able to come onto the platform, and manage their supply chain more effectively. That’s when we get into those paid tiers. That requires not just a sales-led motion to walk them through and fit the software to their specific need. But we also have a really strong customer support background. We just expanded the team to have more of that as well. Then we have a person in-house with a manufacturing-specific background where we give you a consultant or someone who is just specialized in manufacturing, and he understands the lingo, and he understands the workflow. To be able to give you that from our team, that level of support, that white glove service is really important as well.

Yeah. In my role as Director of Marketing right now, I lead a marketing team of one. I’m trying to figure out what that looks like. It takes a village. It takes the CEO to act as a marketer. It takes our head of sales to act as a marketer. It takes our head of product acting as a marketer. As much as it’s a team of one, it’s a village of people bringing valuable input, bringing different ideas to the table, and making it happen. What we’re doing right now as a startup is figuring out how we get down the funnel and downstream on who it is that we sell to and what it is that we solve for as quickly as possible. That’s the best way that we can have a brand that sticks is can say something on a website or an event backdrop that sticks with people and they understand what it is that we do why we exist in the world and how that pertains to them. It feels like we’re almost reading their mail, where they’re like, I need that. That solution hasn’t existed, and now I see it, and now I can’t unsee that problem.

Then we’re doing things more tactically right now that we’re working on, whether it’s upgrading our event presence and event backdrop and all that stuff to brand development, the style skips that we use, our website as an asset, turning that into more of a lead gen tool. There are different things that we’re doing, looking at the site architecture and the NAV and just the way that we facilitate that experience, just to have a brand that is sticky with people, but also works operationally.

It’s really interesting going from ad tech to manufacturing on this because, in ad tech, I would have told you it’d be things like SEO and SEM and a lot of growth marketing efforts in general. But ironically, with manufacturing, it couldn’t be further from that. We’ve had a lot of success with face-to-face conversations. A lot of it is events and trade shows, but it’s also things that feel so historic, but drop-ins on manufacturing sites. We’ve had that be very successful for us as well, where our sales team will go out and meet with manufacturers on-site and get a tour of their operations. I’ve gotten a tour of a handful myself, which has been fun, and get to see what are the processes that you do, and what is it that you’re proud of. Then we get to sit down and build a relationship together. That’s the business that we’re in, is that as an SRM or a separate platform, our goal is to help build relationships or build software to build relationships deeper. The best way to do that is for us to get in person. We do a lot of trade shows. We do about 12 a year, probably four larger shows and a handful of regional shows that we do around the US.

Then some drop-in campaigns are effective for us as well.

Yeah, attribution isn’t too hard since we’re so small. We have a smaller team where the sales and marketing effort is really between me and another guy. That makes it a lot easier to be able to hand that off where he and I are at every show together. We’re able to talk through and we have notes and we’ve come up with a really good process for how we handle things operationally on the back end of every trade show. It’s pretty automated at this point where we can get emails off to people that we meet within hours of meeting them on the trade show floor. Tools like HubSpot make it easy to do that. We’ve had a great instance with them, and their support team has been great in helping us get us up and running there. I’d say attribution in general, though, it’s finicky, right? It’s a tricky space. I just came out of this where we had a lot of conversations around how you have attribution to your digital campaigns. And it’s tricky because more often than not, the source that is doing the attribution reporting is the one that wants to skew it.

And so you have companies like Google that want to take credit for other people’s work. And then more often than not when you pull back in another category because it’s not a one-to-one relationship and you think, okay, well, if Google is telling me all my conversions are coming from SEM, then I should pull back from another area. But in reality, they’re assisting that conversion, even if it is happening on Google. And so it’s more often than not that people will do that, and then they’ll see performance drop. And so for us, attribution is actually, it’s more of a conversation of, Hey, what did you learn about the person? What’s their primary pain point? Where are they within the organization? Are they someone that’s going to influence a deal? Are they someone that’s going to be a change leader within the organization? What we’ve done to make attribution a lot easier is we’ve built an account-based marketing program that we run. The goal of that is essentially to understand who we’re talking to and what their primary pain point is. That gives us a better idea of a timeline for a sales cycle.

Yeah, our product team does a really good job of working with the people on the platform. I would say just in general, they’re ahead of the game in terms of how they structure platform communications and product updates, really just interacting with the sustainment universe a lot better. That’s been super successful for us. It’s just the way that they’re approaching communications. They use customer I/O as their primary source of software for communicating. What that allows them to do is they take the actual platform analytics from Amplitude and pull it into customer I/O, and they’re able to see basically any action that a user takes within the platform timestamped and then segment off of that, which is cool because then it makes it easy for us to not oversaturate messaging with people and be more targeted in that approach. I work closely with our head of product to make sure that what we’re doing from a general corporate marketing standpoint is in line with what we’re doing from a retention standpoint, platform marketing, or product marketing. The other thing is that the Our product also speaks to HubSpot. We have a 360-degree view of our customers at all times.

Once they’ve gotten on the platform, I can see people that have been, we met them at a trade show or they came to our website and they downloaded a piece of thought leadership and then watched them go through the process and sign up for the platform and then see what are they interacting with? How is that going, what is the product seeing, what are the conversations that our sales team is having with them, and what is our CS team doing to help build that relationship? For us, maybe that’s just de facto being smaller right now, but it is a cool part of what we do.

I see myself as part of a broader effort. As we do marketing, marketing is not effective if we’re just getting people to download content and be able to say, Okay, we increased our followers by XYZ, or we had X number of downloads or anything like that. I think the question to that should be, So what? And what is that doing for the business as a whole? I work closely. We call ourselves a good market or a growth team. But, our sales, product, marketing, and CS are all in alignment at all times. Everything is down to a bottom line of, Hey, are we driving new people to adopt the platform and adopt what we’re selling? Especially at this phase as a startup, we’re trying to do that and do that at scale. We’re in an interesting spot, too, because the other thing about sustainment that I didn’t tell you earlier, we have two business units. Our initial business unit that sustainment was founded on was building a product out for the DOD, the US Air Force, and the DLA. We have government contracts where we do a federal defense program built for them.

Then about halfway into that journey, and, honestly, the push to go to market happened in October of last year. But the statement decided to commercialize that product. There are 300,000 manufacturers I told you about in the US, small to mid-size manufacturers. We’re able to basically package that platform and then sell it to the commercial procurement teams that exist around the country. What we’re able to do is then sell into two different business units, and they’re very different sales. The federal defense is more of a partnership. The commercial operates more like a traditional SaaS environment. Kpis, they vary depending on who we’re talking about. But in the end, are we driving new customer acquisition? Are we retaining the customers that we do acquire? And what’s the cost behind that associated with it as best as we can attribute that? We have a pretty good model for doing that right now. And just as we grow, I think the goal is if it gets more complex, it’s because we’re adding so many customers that we’re just trying to figure out what to do with it. So that’s currently the initiative there.

Yeah. So as we work to find market fit, it’s been a really interesting exercise. I’ll give you the synopsis of where things fell flat and then where we stand today. Previously, The launch to go-to-market was that we had a product that was built for manufacturers to go and find new suppliers because that’s something that’s talked about quite often. The problem with that is that it’s an intermittent problem. And so when you go to market and you say, Okay, we have software built on an annual subscription that allows you to go and find new suppliers, but that’s an intermittent problem or pain point that we’re solving for, it’s hard for people to get behind that and say, Yeah, I’m willing to sign up for an annual or even a monthly contract to have access to that data or that platform that universe, and then be able to go and source that. We actually, flipped the conversation on its head because we had tools in the background behind the whole find supplier concept that would allow you to then go and rebuild your supply chain. That’s probably what you came to us for. The flip side now is that we lead with manage the supplier relationship better.

That’s the goal we want to put tools in your hands that allow procurement and sourcing teams to feel like this software was built for them to do their RFQs better, their POs better, their analytics on suppliers better, and their quality audits better. Those things are front and center. Then when the need arises, the network is there on the back end where you can tap into that and go and find new suppliers when you need to. The story about market fit for us is that we learned with the first launch that you can’t go to market with an intermittent problem on an always-on basis for pricing. We did a lot of market research We talked to hundreds, if not thousands of manufacturers to understand their problems better. That’s where we relaunched back in October into the market. It’s been a really exciting journey this past year, just seeing how people have understood that concept a lot better. The network has its moments where it’s helpful for people. But really, what these procurement and sourcing teams want and what they need are tools that are built for them. They’re built for them to manage those relationships better and get the results that they’re looking for.

That’s been a fun journey for us.

Yeah. We’re working primarily with small to mid-size manufacturers. A lot of the large ones… Let me do it this way. There’s a thought leadership piece that we put together with our team, and we did it. We interviewed 100-plus manufacturers. Then we had some of our people who came from a manufacturing background, as well as some of the people from a software background. We did a study and rolled out this idea of an SRM maturity model. It’s essentially every procurement operation within a manufacturer and how mature are those operations. And so there are four stages as you grow through that. And it looks like a curve that goes up. And it’s not about being better, it’s just about being more mature in the sense that you’re more complex. So at the baseline, people are used to managing things either in their brain, like with tribal knowledge or with a Rolodex or on pen and paper or via email and spreadsheet. And then as you slowly work your way up that maturity model and you generate more business, a lot of those procurement teams turn to massive spreadsheets, and you’ve got the one guy that’s in the back that’s a spreadsheet guru that everybody has to go tap into and be like, Hey, can you build this function?

Hey, can you do that? Well, the problem with that is in the same problem with that first stage is that when companies get siloed into that workflow, when that person is on vacation, when that person has a kid and is gone for however long when that person leaves your company, what happens to your business? What happens to the knowledge of that operation? It goes with them. It doesn’t stay with you. What we’re trying to do is say, Hey, for those stage one, stage two companies, really those stage two, for the most part, we’re giving you a cloud-based way of managing that data, managing the conversations, seeing everything in one place as a team where your entire team can go log in. If someone’s sick and doesn’t show up, if someone gets injured and doesn’t show up for work, if someone leaves for another job, especially with how turbulent job markets have been over the last couple of years, that’s one thing we solve for. Then as you work your way up, now we’re going to talk about large enterprise companies. You start to adopt ERPs, you start to adopt SAP integration. You’re trying to integrate as much as possible, probably because the number one reason is that you’re sitting on so much data.

You have all this data from different customers that you have to act on. The second is you just have a lot of business and a lot of pieces to the business and people to work those things. You’re going to need systems that are more capable of handling that. Sustainment fits perfectly in the middle of the curve. We help those that have already adopted ERPs and SAP integration, and we help them, whether it’s trying to test out new suppliers, so they’ll bring in and test suppliers, but to go throw them into your ERP muddies that up and it makes it riskier for an audit. That you might have. We make it simple to be able to do that, and you don’t lose any data. Or if you’re on the bottom end of that spectrum, if you’re doing things, email, spreadsheets, or you’ve got the guy in the back of the warehouse that has all the knowledge, we pull you out of that disorganized mess, and we pull you into an organized system. It works both ways for the market. It just depends on what angle you’re coming from, and where we can help suit those needs better.

That’s great.

That’s a great way of putting it. It’s a challenge every day. There are more things to do than there are hours in the day. That’s true of many jobs and many things that you do. It’s true of things like parenting. There are so many things I want my kids to be able to do. I’ve got a five, three, and an almost one-year-old. I feel like my wife and I talk about that often. We’re just like, Man, you’ve got T-ball and dance and all these things. You’re just like, Oh, there’s so many things. But it’s true in marketing, and it’s true in business. You’re focused on all these different things, and they’re good things. Just like in parenting, it’s like, Hey, I want you to play all the sports. I want you to do all the activities. I want you to hang out with all your friends. But we’re going to have to get focused with our time. That’s the number one struggle of being a team of one, especially in a business where things move so quickly. We roll out product updates every two weeks right now, which is insanely fast. They’re not just bug fixes. These are features.

We just actually did a release this morning where we released some pretty big features. When you’re moving that fast and you’re a team of one, it’s challenging because you have to keep up a lot. There’s a lot to keep up with. I think the biggest thing, just to simplify this a bit, and I’m going to do this, but at the risk of oversimplification here, the number one thing is to listen to the team around you. Make sure that you’re in lockstep with the different things that they’re saying. The second that you realize that there’s a lack of alignment of… You might talk to sales, you might talk to product, you might work through an exercise and be like, Okay, I’m hearing two different things. Let’s all get together and quickly just get on a call. We’re a remote workforce, even though it’s an Austin-based company. For us, we’re used to using tools like Slack and Zoom and whatnot. But frankly, it’s better for us, and we tend to see better results and build better relationships, and we just pick up the phone and call each other. We’ve all got each other’s numbers, and that’s just how we work.

That’s how we work together. It’s a culture that our company has built from day one. Just having that mutual respect for one another, knowing that we’re all trying to achieve the same thing and believe in the best as we work towards that. That’s pretty important to us. As a marketer, I know you’re probably looking for more marketing-specific stuff, but that’s my role. I’m a team. What was that?

I’m a team of one, but frankly, I’m one of 25. This company does not write or die in our marketing. It rides or dies on how effective we are as a team altogether. That’s how I see it, man. It’s my job to make sure that I pull my 125th of the company and that I elevate the 24 to 25 around me who are special, smart people who do a great job to make this company what it is.

So Yeah, he works- That’s awesome. Yeah, I know our CEO is in B Cave. We’ve got a couple of people, our head of HR and our head of operations are both down there. We’re not a fully remote workforce. We’re all over the US, but we do have a handful of people down there. At one of our, They had data scientists down there as well, which is cool. I’m in Fortworth, Texas, so it’s easy for me just to drive down a couple of times a year and go grab dinner with everybody and do some off-site type meetings together, which is fun.

I think there are a couple of ways you can approach this. The first question is the broadest, and there’s like, how is AI changing the way that people do work in general? Not manufacturing, not software, just AI. How is it affecting things? I’m on the younger end, but I was at an event recently. This was interesting. To me. There was a panel of people, and one of the panelists said, he asked everyone to raise their hands. It was like, Hey, how many people in the room have built their business? The room was filled with startup leaders, entrepreneurs, and business owners. He said, How many of you have built your business on blockchain? There were probably 200 people in the room, 150, 200 people, and one person. And he’s like, Look, that’s how… I mean, that was recent, right? Web3, blockchain, and all this stuff is very recent. So then he said, Okay. He said I’m not trying to dissent you. I’m just calling this out. He said, Now, how many of you use AI on a day-to-day basis as you build your business? And like, 170 people in the room probably raise their hands. I mean, it was 90 plus %.

And he said, Look, this is not just a blip on the radar where people get excited about different software and ways to do things, and then we all forget about it later and go revert to what we’re doing. We will not revert to what we’re doing. And that’s how I see AI, is that this is going to forever change the way that work is being done. We’re going to see the continuation of solutions that get put out to do things, just simple mundane tasks, and do them better. Personally, the way that I use AI, I signed up for ChatGPT the week that it was released. I knew I was like, this is a tool I’m going to have to get familiar with. The number one value that it does for me is it helps me go from blank space to something. Usually, I’ll have an idea and be like, this is what I want. I don’t know how to structure that. If I were going to go give a talk, I’d be like, Yeah, these are the main things that I want to do. I want to get these main points across.

Help me structure those thoughts in a way that speaks to this audience. But then there’s a human component to that. You need to be able to go through that and parse through that as a person who can relate to people’s feelings and emotions and just understand and recognize with emotional intelligence the situation around you and the people around you. To take that into manufacturing and sustainment, within manufacturing, I think AI is more scary for people than it is helpful at the moment. Coming out of ad tech, it was the opposite. It was like, if you don’t sprinkle AI on something, you’re behind the times. Then within manufacturing, we’re just getting to that a little bit. I think people are like, Yeah, you need to have some AI in there, but don’t lead with that, because for some people, it’s more scary than it is helpful. I think the biggest thing in manufacturing is, how you take AI to derive actual value out of what you’re building, the technology that you’re building that genuinely helps them do their job better. It doesn’t just help either A, make a profit, or B, give you something that marketing can work with, which as a marketer, I’m just speaking in full transparency there, AI is one of the easiest things to go to market with and say, Yeah, we can do this in an automated fashion now with artificial intelligence.

Whatever this is, it doesn’t matter. It’s something easy and it’s exciting to be able to go and talk about. For whatever reason, we’re all drawn to I think for sustainment, where it comes in, it’s going to be interesting. I’ve seen a lot of the product development stuff that we’re working on just to introduce more AI into the product. Our number one focus is supplier management or supplier relationships and how people manage them. We want to introduce AI that allows you to do that better and doesn’t replace the human component. That’s what sustainment is focused on, we’re not trying to replace the people you work with. We’re trying to elevate the relationships, the human relationships that you have. And find ways to… Maybe it’s a chatbot that can tell you and say, Hey, tell me about what supplier did I send that part through? How did they do? Instead of having to manually go hunt that information down and know how to source that information. We’re trying to just bring those insights to the front. I think it’s going to be fun to see what the statement does, what our product team develops, and what our engineering team builds, just to make that a lot easier.

I’m ready. Let’s do it.

Tenfold right now. I’d probably put it into our web design, and that’s probably very specific to what we’re currently working on. But I think it’s really important to have your website be a lead driver for you. There are branding components to it for sure, and you need to tell a story. But site architecture, navigation, your web page development, and the time and resources it takes to build that is crucial. It’s costly. I would probably say, let’s go get a killer website that does exactly what we know it can do for us and be one of our top lead drivers.

Definitely, yeah. We work with a creative agency, too, and they’ve been very helpful in terms of helping drive the direction and the stylescape and layout and all of that. But yeah, definitely leaning into different AI solutions for that.

Oh, that’s a good question. The weirdest place I’ve come up with a brilliant marketing idea? Probably my garage. We have a little workout area in there. Working from home is nice because I can find time in the schedule and all I have to do is go put a T-shirt on and walk into the garage and just start working out real quick for 30 minutes or whatever during the day. But my mind is still running. I can think of multiple times where I’ve come out of meetings and been like, Okay, I’m still thinking about that. Let me go start a workout. Yeah, probably my garage, which is not parallel with how startups are built because a lot of startups are founded out of garages. I don’t want to put myself in that bucket just yet.

Oh, wow. This feels contentious. I feel like there’s a wrong answer here. If anyone from sustainment listens to this, I’m just going to say our go-to-market team. I love solving problems with our whole go-to-market team. That’s going to keep a safe answer there. But yeah, that’s our sales, our marketing, our products in CS. They’re talented people. Doug Wick heads up our product efforts. Trevor Bryant heads up our sales, and Kyle Sperling has been doing our CS, and now we just hired Mandy Kerf to help with that as well. We’ve got a great team of people that help with that. All right.

This is the easiest question. I’m only on one. I’ve been off of all social media outside of LinkedIn since 2019. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I’m not a huge fan personally of social media. That’s probably a hot topic, especially as a marketer. I think it’s funny actually. What was the trigger?

Yeah, that’s a great question. Back in, it was 2019 or so, 2020, I just recognized we had our first kid back in 2019, in July of 2018. And I think the biggest thing that I realized in the first six months of his life is how precious time is and how fleeting it can be. I was spending hours just scrolling through different feeds across different platforms. And that’s one aspect of it is how much time you spend on these platforms. This is so counterintuitive as a marketer. My job is to get people stuck on things, right? So this is ironic to say this, but I just knew that there are better ways to spend time, whether it’s reading books and working out or pressing in with my wife and my kids. I do things like I try to put my phone on the charger when I finish up work here. It’s hard to disengage in a remote environment from the work that you do, but I find that if I don’t have a screen with me, I’m able to interact with my kids and my wife better when I get off of work. And so cutting social media off I made that transition even easier because you’ll find yourself just looking for more information, looking for things to consume when you’re not even in need of it.

For me, I love sports, and so a lot of my social media previously would have been just sports in general. But now, the reason I focused on LinkedIn, it’s a great tool. Build relationships, build your network. We’re doing a lot of it within sustainment, just building that company profile out. It just helps me feel like I’m in tune with trends in tech and what people are doing in business. But yeah, I’ve just cut off the account. So I’ll say LinkedIn because that’s a really easy answer for me.

Yeah, well, the algorithms, they’re built to keep you there. That’s the goal how can we get you to spend more time on the platform? I tell this story a lot to people of just a concept, and the concept is that if it’s a free product, you ultimately are the product right in the end. With those platforms, they’re free to join, you can do it in 30 seconds or less, and then they’ve got you hooked for hours. And so really what they’re doing is they have your data and they have your time and they have your focus. And so then they bring in advertisers into that environment and can sell you stuff, and that’s making them money. And there’s a whole system there, right? But it’s It’s not all evil. It’s not all bad. I just think that our generation, specifically, doesn’t do a great job of doing the hard thinking and asking the hard questions of, Hey, is this worth my time? And some being pushed into having three kids under five pretty early in my career, that’s just what got out for me. We’re grateful to be there and grateful to have these kiddos in our lives, and they shape us and who we are.

But I can’t let social media and technology shape me. I’ve got to go out there and take that head on and also do that for our kids. Same thing as just thinking through, how are we going to put these tools in their hands and at what age and how are we going to understand what’s effective for them at the right time? Those are just some general thoughts about that.

Yes. Thank you for having me. I appreciate. It’s been great to get to know about your business and get to know you more. I’m honored to be a guest here and excited to see more guests and more podcasts to follow.

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