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Leveraging Domain-Aware AI for RFP Automation: Advanced ABM Tactics and SEO Optimization in SaaS

Director of Marketing

In this episode, Harshit Gupta from Wytlabs talks with Farah Van Caloen, Director of Marketing at Rohirrim, an AI-powered RFP automation platform. Farah highlights Rohirrim’s unique domain-aware AI technology, which tailors content based on company-specific data, setting it apart in niche markets like government contracting and large enterprises. Farah blends data-driven insights with creative marketing strategies, focusing on personalized account-based marketing (ABM) to reach high-level decision-makers. SEO remains central to their inbound strategy, showing significant traffic growth, and she is particularly excited about how AI will revolutionize video content and personalization in future marketing efforts.

Rohirrim is an AI-powered RFP automation platform offering patented domain-aware generative AI for personalized, secure proposals.

Farah van caloen
Director of Marketing

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Wytpod. My name is Harshit, and I’m the Director of Business Alliances at Wytlabs. We’re a digital agency specializing in SaaS and e-commerce SEO. I’ve got Farah with me today. She’s the Director of Marketing at Rohirrim , a leading RFP, which is basically Request for Proposals, AI-powered automation platform. So big welcome to you, Farah.

So glad you came. Thank you, harshit. It’s good to be here.

Great. Now, Farah, you’ve had a brilliant career journey so far, from product marketing to director of marketing. Can you share what initially drew you to this field, your marketing field, and how your passion for data and creativity shapes your current role?

It’s actually pretty funny. I’m going to have to go back to high school. But basically, when I graduated from high school, I had A pluses. It would sound stark, right? A pluses in everything, chemistry, physics, biology, statistics, maths, so all this stuff. So when I got to college, I was an undecided major. And so I would do those career quizzes, and they’re like, Oh, what are you good at? And I was good at a lot of nerdy things, plus some of the creative things. So I was like, Oh, I’m going to do this and that. So they recommended psychology, and I did that for a little bit. And then music. And then I basically changed my major five times. It was very hard. Then finally, I talked to a career counsellor, and she’s like, Okay, let’s not talk about what you’re good at. Let’s talk about what you’re interested in. What do you find interesting? I was like, I really like data. I love looking at numbers and charts and trying to understand what’s going on. To me, it’s like a puzzle that I’m trying to solve. But equally, I really like creative things. I love art, I love music.

I feel very happy when I’m surrounded by art and music. And she’s like, I think you’ll have a great career in advertising. I was like, Okay, that sounds interesting. Let me start exploring that. So literally, a couple of weeks later, I was in a marketing class at university, and then our professor said that he knows a local ad agency that’s looking for interns. So I applied and I got the job. And this was before I graduated from college. So I was 21. And basically ever since, I’ve been doing marketing. I’m one of those people who went to school for marketing, and I’ve been doing it my entire life. I’ve never done anything else. And I love it. I’m one of those people that wakes up every day. I’m like, Yeah, I’m excited to go to work. I just find it so interesting.

Yeah. And plus the creative side of things, plus psychology, these are just added bonus of a good marketer. So kudos to you. And then be curious to go to multiple fields.

I was starting to get worried around stuff half a more year when I still didn’t have a major. I was starting to get really worried, but then it worked out. So it all worked out in the end.

I get it. Until my masters, I wasn’t clear whether I’m a finance guy or a marketing guy. It was like a dual speciality and I pursued both. These are like quite diverse subjects.

Yeah.

All right. Now, coming back to your platform, how does your platform differentiate itself in the crowded AI market? What are the specific unique challenges? Does it basically address this in the diverse industry that you cater to?

I’m going to first talk about how our product is different, what differentiates it. Then I’m going to talk about what unique challenges we solve. First of all, our AI, our fee automation platform is the first of its kind. There are a lot of competitors in this space that say they do the same thing, but our technology is actually different and it’s patented. So we actually hold a patent on what is called domain-aware generative AI technology, which basically means we are generative AI, but specific to an organization data, their own database. So what happens is we ingest terabytes and terabytes of a company’s data, like unstructured data, and then we use that to generate long-form content. What differentiates this is one, that technology, right? Because we have a parents on it. But then also the quality of the content that we generate, it’s really high quality. It’s very accurate, it’s very thorough. It’s very comprehensive. And it’s also in the tone of voice of a company like branding, because we know all this information from them for ingesting their data. We know how they sound and how they like to sound. Another thing is, since we work with a lot of government contractors and a Fortune 1,000 company, a Security is very important to them.

And so we have really, really high security standards. I’m not going to rattle off all the certifications, but we’ve certified really high levels of security. And then the last thing in something. We have a world-class customer success team. They’re amazing. You never have to go through a robot or an automated phone call. You go directly to your customer success manager. They’re very knowledgeable. They’re very helpful. And I think that really puts us apart from other competitors in the industry that make you go through a hoop to talk to someone.

That’s brilliant.

Let me talk about the challenges. Sorry. That’s the second private question. So basically, a lot of companies, especially government contractors, a lot of Fortune 1000 companies, they rely on winning bits to grow their business. I don’t know how much you know about the RFP industry, but basically to grow your RFP, your win rate or the number of RFPs you respond to the only way to do that, really, before our technology was to grow the team to hire more people. But as you know, hiring more people is very expensive, and it’s not really that scalable. Companies would respond to only a fraction of the RFPs in their pipeline because of bandwidth issues, because of capacity issues. So that is one of the unique challenges. Where we come in is we supercharge the people that they already have to respond to more RFPs in the pipeline and win more proposals. So we automate a lot of the TDF path, and that allows companies to grow more efficiently by responding to more RFPs in their pipeline and winning more RFPs by submitting better proposal responses.

Got you. And are you also targeting construction industry as well?

So I think we have customers, honestly, from many different industries, and we do target them. We do not have success with them. But you ask where we add a unique value. I think where we really are unique are in some of those industries that I mentioned, like government contracting, aerospace and defense, even higher at Fortune 1,000. This is where our bread and butter is. And those companies, we’re not a cheap solution. We’re priced higher than a lot of our competitors. But we saw a specific pain point that those types of companies experience, and that’s why they’re willing to pay a premium for our product. But we’ll welcome anyone. Anyone else you say, you can come, you’ll find value for sure. But it’s those companies that are willing to pay the premium to get those unique benefits that they get with us.

I would love to know now which specific inbound strategies have been fruitful for you so far, and any specific tools practices that you’re using or any specific practices that you have in place for carrying out your operations effectively?

Yeah. So like I mentioned, our industry is niche. Not a lot of people know about it. It’s not like a for… Our TAM is not hundreds of millions of people. We have a pretty small TAM. So really, with our strategy, it’s very targeted. We don’t do any spray and pray strategies at all. That doesn’t work for us. We very specific buyer persona. They’re very senior, and they’re not on TikTok or Facebook or Instagram, sometimes on LinkedIn, but they’re very hard to find. And It’s a very specific type of persona. So a lot of the things that we do is very personalized. So we’re currently too small to have a full ABM tool. So We do a lot of ABM strategies manually, so a lot of it is very targeted. Then we do… Seo is big for us. We know our buyers. Obviously, that’s a typical touch point in a buyer’s journey. Is a search engine. So even though we’re not where we want to be with SEO right now, we have a lot of plans in place that hopefully will kick off soon. But so these are basically the channels that we to focus on.

You’re not going to see us math marketing because that’s not where our buyers are.

And how many typical touch point? I’m curious now. You have been investing on the ad sprint as well. So how many typical touch points does it take for a sales-qualified conversion?

And how many typical touch point? I’m curious now. You have been investing on the ad sprint as well. So how many typical touch points does it take for a sales-qualified conversion?

Now, you love creativity, you love storytelling. How do you balance these things? Your creativity with the data-driven decision making in your marketing campaigns?

The first thing I’ll say, I say this all the time, just because we’re in a B2B environment doesn’t mean we can’t be creative. I know if you look a lot at B2B company marketing, it’s very dry, it’s very corporate. I feel like I come from a strong B2C background from 10 plus years ago, and I brought that creativity and that fun, vibrant marketing over to my B2B experience. And so the first thing I’ll say is you don’t have to be stiff, you don’t have to be boring, you don’t have to be very serious. But how you balance that with data, I think that’s a question marketers ask themselves all the time. I think what I like to do my approach is look at the data, find the key insights, and then don’t be afraid to pounce on them. I’ll use an example. We looked at our data and we saw that we were getting more MQLs from a specific persona that wasn’t originally one of our… I think these are our target persona. And I didn’t push them away. I was like, Okay, this is interesting. There could be value there. Let’s launch a more personalized campaign for them.

That’s a different vibe from our traditional campaigns or our ICPs. They’re very different personalities. And we went with that, and we’re going to see how it goes, and we’re going to look at the data again and see if it goes well. But the point I’m trying to make is you look at the data, you learn the insights, and then you take bold action.

Yeah, makes sense. All right. Now, I would love to understand your platform solves, it’s built for complex proposal workflows. How exactly do you market such specialized tool? And any specific strategies that you have used and that has worked brilliantly for you to communicate its value to such a diverse audience. In fact, your content must be a hurdle because you need to make your message resonate with such a diverse audience.

You know what? I’ve worked on a lot of products in my past, and where I find the biggest struggle with storytelling and with positioning and value prop is not with complex products. I’m pretty good at taking complex information I’m simplifying it. Where I find it the most difficult is when it’s actually too simple that it’s hard to differentiate. It’s hard to really talk about what’s special about you, what makes you different. I’ve dealt with products in the past that were commodities, not that much specialization, and I thought those were harder. With Roheram right now with our platform, I feel like the story writes itself. We know who the buyer is. We know exactly what their pain points are. And by the way, the reason we know their pain points so well is because our CEO, Steve, he used to be a person in charge of submitting RC responses. So he did that for a really long time. And then he’s like, okay, this is not fun. It’s picking up a lot of my time. I’m not able to spend time with my kids on the weekend, and I’m going to go the tool to solve those pain points for myself.

He’s an applied AI engineer. So we know the pain points really well, and we have a product that solves those pain points. So it’s very easy to tell the story. This is the pain point. This is what we solve. This is how we do it. So that’s the formula. But where it gets tricky is getting the message out to the right buyers. So that’s been our challenge. We’re a young company. We’re still figuring that out. But definitely, I would say where we’ve had the most success is on LinkedIn. And then with paid search. And then SEO, I know we’re not where we want to be, but we’ve made a lot of progress in the past 5-6 months. Our SEO traffic has actually grown exponentially. Even though we’re not at the destination we want to be at yet, but we’re having a lot of success, and we’re working towards that vision that we want for SEO. But I would say those are the channels that have worked for us the most. I have a lot of plans, things I’d like to play around with, like more content. I want to use more ABM strategy, maybe try other social channels.

But as a one person team, I have to prioritize and move as fast as I can.

Do you want to take a break? Have some water?

I’m okay. You can take a break if you want. I have my coffee here.

Okay, let’s continue. Tell me, you have this specialty of personalized marketing as well as client engagement, some of the core expertise that you have got? How do you ensure that your outreach is both effective and meaningful in a B2B environment? What are the checklists that you have in place?

My formula is very simple. I repeat this all day long to everyone I talk to. Start with your customer’s pain points. What is your user’s pain points? What are they trying to solve? And then work backwards from that. I think if you talk to someone, if you tell someone, I know this thing is very painful for you, you’re going to get their attention right away and be like, Yes, I see myself in that. And then we’re like, And this is how we can solve it for you. I feel like that instantly resonates. So I think you just need to make your users and your buyers understand that you know their pain points, you can solve them, and this is how you solve them. But if you start with the pain points and work backwards, I think that’s how you break through the clutter. That’s how your messaging is very effective. And then with client engagement, even though there are customers now, they work with us. We still start with their pain point. As we’re creating more collateral for our customers, when we have our quarterly business reviews of them and things like that, we always start with the pain points.

We look at the pain points that informs our agenda, that informs what we’re going to talk about. Yeah. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does. Currently, I’m sure because you’re working with the limited initial customers that you have on board, although you’ve got big enterprises on board, but still, that one-to-one connection is something which is feasible. I’m sure you must be maintaining it really well. Now, as the company grows, definitely your customers, the number of customers is going to grow. Any specific strategy that you have in place to keep them engaged and hooked with your product and have a good retention altogether? What do you think is going to work for you.

I think when it comes to retaining customers, there’s two things that will help with retention. One, making sure they have a great product experience and their product continues to solve their pain points. Then two, that they’re getting the support they need when they need it. I think the way to mitigate that is, one, continue to invest in our product, which is something we do all the time. It’s our number one priority is to make sure our product solves our customer’s pain points and that they do it easily. Time to value is very important. So as we continue to invest in the product, there’s things you can do within it to not just with functionality, but also improve the usability and the experience. So this is not something we have right now, but I know as we scale, we’re going to be doing more of things like in-app messaging. So I’d be dependent on the path of use, I’ve used Aircome on the path. But things that guides the users through the product, intercepts them when they’re confused or intercepts them when they’re stuck and felt them what to do next. In that way, we’ll make sure that the product is becoming sticky and that as long as you get value, they’ll use it.

But then on the other side of that, I think it’s important to continue to invest in our customer success team. Ideally, if the product is so good and it’s not complicated, It’s hard. People are getting what they want. Ideally, they’ll need less TS support, but they’re still going to need TS support. Customers always need TS support. There’s always needs that are coming up that have not been addressed by the product. I think it’s important to continue to invest in success. My last company, they did that very well. They had a huge customer success team, and that was one of the reasons why they constantly won business and why they had a really low churn rate.

Yeah. They will cvent, right?

That is correct. Cvent, yeah.

We actually had Cvent also, be sure, on our podcast, sometime back.

Do you know who the speaker was?

His name is I think, Mukarji. He’s the Director of enterprise Management.

Okay.

Yeah. All right. Now, coming back to your platform. What are some of the biggest challenges that you have faced so far? And how have you done those challenges into opportunities for growth?

In terms of challenges, in terms of marketing or platform functionality?

In terms of marketing.

I think the biggest challenge for me, honestly, is because we’re a younger company. We’re still growing. Right now, I’m the only full-time resource in marketing. So my biggest challenge is that… Excuse me, I’m spread so thin. And I have a huge vision and a huge pipeline. I keep telling people, I sound like product manager because I’m always like, Oh, it’s in my roadmap. It’s in my backlog. I do have a long, a really big pipeline of things I want to do, but I can’t do everything because I’m a one person team. So the biggest challenge for me has been how to prioritize, how to make sure I’m prioritizing the right thing. Since my time is limited, I should be spending it on the things that are going to drive the most value. And then the way I think… So I think getting in the weeds and a lot of things I probably haven’t done in 10 years. I’m doing a lot of things in-house. I’m doing a lot of things manually. I’m doing a lot of things myself. And really, there are things I haven’t done in over 10 years. But where I think this is going to turn into a big opportunity is when I grow my team and hire more people I found, and I’ve grown so many teams in the past.

What I found to be the fastest way to get someone up to speed and make sure they’re effective is to have done their job before. So if I’m doing a job and then I move to enrol and hire someone to fill the job that I was doing, I can get them up to speed very quickly. I can make sure we have the right KPIs in place, and I can make sure that they become effective very quickly. So I know the opportunity is there. When I start hiring people, we’re going to be fine on all cylinders very quickly. Their ramp is going to be very quick. Yeah, I’m sure. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Now, talking about the emerging trends, your perspective in marketing, anything specific that you’re most excited about? And how do you see these new trends shaping the future, especially for your marketing strategies at your organization?

Yeah, I’m very excited about some of the new marketing strategies or trends. I think the first one is personalization. If I could personalize every single thing that leaves the company, I would do that. It’s not realistic, but the cool thing is with AI, there’s a lot of AI platforms out there that help with, for example, finding the right users at a company, finding their information, learning more about them, and then also personalizing the content. There is many levels of AI tools involved in that that could make this happen. I think just a few years ago, it wasn’t possible, and it would have taken so much longer and would have been so much more expensive to do something like this. So number one is personalization. Number two is video content. I’m a huge advocate of video content. I’ve produced, I don’t know, not 100, but at least of videos in the past. But the challenge that I always had was, one, they were very expensive. And then two, they took a really long time, not just to script. You needed to script, but then also to actually produce. And what I’m really liking now is that I’m seeing a lot of video AI tools.

I’ve been doing a little bit of research. I haven’t actually thought one yet. I’ve been doing a little bit, but there’s so many out there that you see a little bit of information and it’s set out an actual video for you or an actual script and things like that. I think that’s amazing. I think it’s going to be a game changer. I mean, we all know video content resonates better than static images. I really think it’s going to be a game changer. And the last thing, and I know this is more applicable to some industries than others, is user-generated content UGC. And basically, user-generated content is to show real people using your products, and then show how they’re getting value out of it. And I think that is just another form of what we traditionally call the marketing social proof, is when When you collect testimonials, when you collect quotes and things like that, in my industry, we’re never going to see our buyers doing an unboxing video on TikTok using our products and talking about We’re like, That’s not going to happen. But the next best thing is that we are going to be leveraging, and this is something we’re already starting to do.

It’s get a lot of testimonials, get quotes, co-author. We’re co-authoring blogs and articles with some of our users, doing case studies with them.

You can even co-host webinars. What’s that? You can even co-host webinars with your customers and drive value.

I’d love to. We do have plan to host a few webinars with our customers in the coming months. But what I would really love to do is to have a formal webinar program where we’re doing a webinar every two weeks. It’s running smoothly like a well-owned machine We’re not there yet. I need to grow the team for that. But we do have plans to co-host webinars and five-a-side chats and things like that.

For basically marketers looking to create and push boundaries like you do? What advice would you give to them to stay ahead of the curve and maintain a creative edge as well?

I have a few things. The first one I’ve said it before is to be bold. Definitely look at the data. Definitely make data-informed decisions. But once you have the data, be bold, do something risky. If you don’t take a risk, you’re not going to see the returns, like low risk, no returns with that thing. You know what I mean? Look at the data, understand the data, and then act on the data in a bold way. You can make it fun, you can make it creative. It doesn’t have to be sussy. The second thing I’ll say is a lot of times, and I see this a lot, in both B2C and B2B, you have someone come in to lead the marketing team. And the first thing they do is you want to do a big splash. So they either spend 70 % of the marketing budget on a rebrand or on this TV ad or this super expensive campaign just to make a big splash and show that they know what they’re doing. So many times that has backfired. First of all, they didn’t get the impact that they want from that big splashy project that they had.

And then now they don’t have any budget to spend through the end of the year. So don’t be afraid of making incremental changes that could amount to something really big. That’s what I’ve been doing. I’ve been doing a little bit here, a little bit there. And slowly, I mean, if you see the results we’ve had just from small incremental changes, it would blow your mind. You can do really incredible things with small incremental changes. And the other thing that I’ll say is, creativity can come from anywhere. I do this a lot. I’ll be watching TV or going on a walk or even talking to my toddler, and I have these ideas, Oh, wait, this could be a cool campaign, or, Wait, this could look cool on at least an ad. I’m always thinking, and I feel like creativity could come from anywhere. One thing I do a lot, I don’t know, everyone, I don’t know if every marketer does this. It’s just a me thing. But whenever I look at TV ads or magazine ads, or even when I’m, a store and a point of sale, a booth or whatever, I always think in my head, How can I make it better?

I’m always thinking, How can I make this better? How can I make this better? And by thinking about that, you also start thinking about what you can do better and what you can learn from this thing and take back to your own company and your own marketing strategy. It worked for me. All those things worked for me.

You mentioned I’m going to point that you take inspiration from almost anywhere. I would love to. Is there any specific pool of inspiration for you? Do you have that that you can share? Also, how do you find work-life balance and what do you do to basically recharge and stay creative?

A couple of things. One, I follow a lot of marketing influencers on Faint, on Zalaten. A lot. And I spend maybe 20 minutes, at least 20 minutes every day, just checking what they’re posting, what they’re talking about. One thing I do a lot, also, I don’t know if it’s a me thing or everyone does this, is I go deep in the comments. I think a lot of times people leave really good ideas and suggestions and feedback and things like that in the comments, not in the actual post. So I’m a person that I’ll read a post and then I’ll spend just 10 minutes It’s looking in the comments. So a lot of times I’ll get ideas there. But then I think the other thing is, if you stop thinking of B2B marketing as this corporate stuffy, formal thing and start thinking of it as something that can be creative and can be fun and can be inspirational, you can start seeing parallels with everyday things. Honestly, I’ll be looking at a cooking video. I’ll be looking at a cooking video or someone doing a recipe, and I see things, and I’m like, Oh, I really like the way he said this thing.

I think I can use that, rephrase it a little bit, and use it in a messaging brief or something like that. You just have to break that silo between thinking, Oh, B2B has to be this super formal or corporate thing. Then with work-life balance, I know. So I personally love work. So if I work late, I find it enjoyable, but that’s not something I want to do every day. So when I try to do it, me and my husband He’s the same way. He’s very passionate about work. So we take turns. If I work late one day, the next day, I’ll be on 100 % mom duty, make sure I spend a lot of time with… We have one son and a dog, and I love spending time with them. To make sure I’m on full-time mom duty. You’re spending a lot of time with them, and then he can work late. And then on the weekends, I make sure every second counts. So for example, I used to have two glasses of wine on Friday night, but I would wake up in the morning feeling just a little bit tired. So now I’m like, Okay, I’m not drinking wine on Friday.

I’m going to wake up super early on Saturday and spend every minute with my dog and my baby and just maximize the time that I have with them. We do a lot of things. Even if we’re just sitting at home, we’ll do puzzles and we’ll color and we’ll play pretend, and we’re just spending time together. I think, honestly, I think the quality of time you spend together is much more important than the quantity. A lot of times when we say, I spend maybe one hour, an hour and a half total with my son, which is not great. But on weekends, we do so much together and we spend so much time bonding that I think at the end of the day, he’s a happy, healthy, secure You’re a confident little boy.

That’s brilliant. All right,  Farah, we’re coming to an end now, and I would love to have a quick rapid fire with you. Are you ready for that.

Sure. Yeah. Go for it.

Okay. Was the most unexpected lesson you have learned from a failed campaign?

From a failed campaign? Oh, man, I have this one campaign coming to mind. Okay. So what I’ve learned the most The most surprising, sorry, lesson that I learned is that a lot of times people ask for something. They say they want something, but they’re not sure what they want. I’ll give you an example. I had a client at one of my previous jobs ask for a user generated content campaign, and we did that for them. And they didn’t like it at all because they thought we were going to get like, celebrities to generate content for them. And we’re like, that’s… I was like, first of all, we don’t have the budget to hire a celebrity. You use your generated content for us. I’m thinking, well, that’s not what user generated content really is. It’s not a celebrity endorsement. So we spent a lot of money and effort on this campaign. And then when we showed them the results, they’re like, no, this all rejected. So what that made me realize, and what I’ve been doing very diligently since then is when someone asks for something, ask a lot of questions, ask so many questions, and make sure they know exactly what they want and that you understand exactly what they’re asking for.

In fact, setting the expectation right is also one of the key things. Now, if magically your marketing budget gets increased by, let’s say, 10 fold, what would be the one thing that you would do with that additional budget?

I would invest more in account-based marketing. That’s going to include a bunch of things, though, like getting the right tools and infrastructure in place, getting the right team in place. If we want to do it right and we want to do it at scale, it’s expensive and it takes time. So I would probably invest in that.

All right. Now, who’s your favorite marketer to follow on social media?

Oh, there’s so many.

I’ll pick one.

Okay. I think I see his name wrong. His name is Kyle Poeyer. He works for opens you. I think he’s one of the founders or one of the executives that opens you. They have a lot of interesting data-driven content. And because of my love for data, I find it so interesting. I check his stuff all the time.

Okay. What’s a marketing tool or app you can’t live without?

This might seem silly, but I love Canva. I use it for PowerPoint. I make my decks in Canva. I use it for landing pages that I design. I use it for everything. I’m not a creative or artist by any stretch of the imagination, but they make it so easy to make things look nice.

Yeah. In fact, I’m a big fan of Canva as well.

I’m glad it’s not the only one.

All right. Now, what’s your last Gen AI prompt?

I think it was a video script. I put in some information about what video I wanted with the video script, which I didn’t use exactly. I read it the whole thing, but it was a good starting point, defeating the blank page, as our CEO would say.

Okay. All right. Now, going to go to your very last question. What’s one marketing cliché you wish would disappear? One marketing cliché you wish would disappear.

One marketing what part?

Cliché.

Oh, God, there’s summary. Let me see marketing cliché. I think… I don’t know this cliché, and this is a perception. I hear this all the time. If we’re not going to be number one in paid, we don’t want to Why am I to be number one? This obsession with being number one, I don’t think the ROI is there. I don’t think that’s not even how it works. But yeah, I would love to get that obsession out of people’s heads.

Now, based on your answer, I’m going to ask you one more question. What’s the most weirdest place where you’ve seen an ad placement, basically? What is the most unusual place you have ever seen an ad?

In the toilet, on the door. I can’t remember what it was right now, but I remember I saw it and I was like, This is weird, but it makes a lot of sense. I didn’t know if it was toilet paper or it was something that made sense in that location, but it was so weird, but they did it well.

All right, Farah. This was fun. Thank you so much.

Yeah, thank you.

For sharing your experiences and your wisdom on this podcast and on the platform. I really appreciate your time here with me. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. Likewise. Really appreciate it.

Let me just hit pause, J.

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